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Meeting ID: 636 6423 9488
Passcode: 849523
Notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cz87qMPnCc4WJ3gIMb9vJhX5QBo6gSuAHzbL5TLrbwQ

Agenda


Overview

Monday 26th May 2025
19:30 Working Dinner (tbd), Garching Augistiner, Freisinger Landstraße 4, 85748 Garching bei München 

Tuesday 27th May 2025
Working Lunch
Working Dinner 19:30 Working Dinner, Ratskeller München, Marienplatz 8, 80331 München (U6 to Marienplatz)

Wednesday 28th May 2025
Working Lunch

Attendees 

  • Amineh Akhavan (LRZ)
  • Nicolas Liampotis (GRNET) - remote
  • Esther Ruiz Ben (DFN)
  • Stefan Liström (SUNET)
  • Niels van Dijk (SURF)
  • Christoph Graf (Switch)
  • Casper Dreef (GÉANT)
  • Maartin Kremers (SURF) - No eggs

...

  • Panos Louridas (GRNET)
  • Wolfgang Pempe (DFN)
    available Monday afternoon and Wednesday morning (until 11am) for remote participation
  • Eivind Krieg Lysø (SIKT) - Cancelled flight - remote/sick

...

Agenda

  • Welcome
  • Longterm plans for the wallet task - Stefan
  • Going through the topics we are working on (most important point of workshop, we could give each topic up to an hour of discussion time if needed)
    • Terminology - Wolfgang
    • Current state of EUDIW - Ester (slides)
    • The role of Identity federation in the wallet eco-system - Eivind
    • Interoperability for wallets and credentials - Nicolas
  • Survey - Ester -Amineh
    • Both the survey and the process around the survey
    • Please reflect on questions before the workshop -all → here
  • How to build a community around the work in this task - Stefan
    • Possibly plan an info-share session
  • eID (eduID) and possible relation to wallets - Christoph (4YEO(20250527 T6 F2F E(du)-ID & Wallets.pdf)
    • some material for inspiration from our national initiative "Rethinking edu-ID"
  • Digital credentials in higher education - how many things will a user have in their wallet? - Niels
    • demo available NGDIL for inspiration
    • demo from the eduWallet project at SURF
  • Governance models cross sectorial (how can we collaborate with other outside education and research sector) - Christoph (20250523 T6 F2F Governance Models.pdf)
    • material presented at the "participation meetings" of the Swiss E-ID initiative for inspiration
    • The "Ayra-approach" to cross-sectorial exchange of trust related information
  • Roadmap

...

  • Know what to focus on in the wallet task going forward (have a clear roadmap)
  • Have a survey completed to start our outreach from the task

Notes

Long-term plans for the wallet task

Goal to present at the CTO workshops 27-28 Nov on the wallet ecosystem and call to actions for the European NRENs

https://events.geant.org/event/1844/ 

Actions

  • Casper to get Lars F in the loop for targeted messages.-> Come up with consumable dissemination for end users (institutions). 
  • Create an Impact analysis. Preferably from a technical (CTO) and business (CEO) perspective.
  • Make 1-5 minute videos on what the wallet and credentials are all about

Terminology

Add functional aspects column: issuance, verification, governance & trust, wallet holder.

Both falling out all or into multiple functional capabilities are also possible outcomes. 

Actions: 

  • Nicolas will update the OpenID4VCI/VP list.
  • Wolfgang will go through the functional aspects

https://timspeelman.nl/eidas/implementing-acts.html 

Current state of EUDIW

  • Identify applicable Implementing Acts or NRENs and institutions. 
  • And maybe trust frameworks for NRENs. 
  • Create an overview of standards.

Actions:

  • Ester look at the R&E challenges from the ratified implementing acts and add to the impact analysis
  • Amineh continue listing the standards relevant

TNC

Amineh, presenting on Tuesday 16:00

Stefan, Niels. Demo at community hub on Tuesday morning (think around 9:00)

Niels host session during lunch between REFEDS and eduGAIN on Friday

Christopher, Eivind, Casper, Maarten and Wolfgang will be there.

Interoperability for wallets and credentials

Do we need to distinguish between sectoral and non-sectoral? 

Sectoral stakeholders:

  • NRENs
  • Collaborating organisations - such as GÉANT community, Erasmus w/o Papers, University Alliances, etc
  • Institutions in (higher) education and research.
  • Administrative bodies - local to the institutions such as services they have contracted.

Start focusing on R&E institutions (primarily EU and EEA then “rest of the world”). 

DIIP v4 profile to help interoperability. Might be more relevant for education than HAIP as most usecases probably won’t need HAIP in education:

https://fidescommunity.github.io/DIIP/

Interoperability model:

https://www.surf.nl/files/2024-06/educational-interoperability-may-2024.pdf

Actions

  • Nicolas adopt the text based on the comments
  • Nicolas (with help from Panos) will look into the results from the large scale pilots to see how they interpret interoperability and how their work map to our view of interoperability.
  • Niels create a wiki page and (when time is right) start mapping the eduID credential use case to the End-to-end credential interoperability

NREN QUESTIONNAIRE

eIDs in Europe presentation at OSW: https://wiki.geant.org/download/attachments/989626507/eIDs%20in%20Europe%20-%20A%20Crash%20Course.pdf?api=v2
A presentation by Martin K from CESnet on the usability of european eID for research infra’s

https://indico.nikhef.nl/event/6378/contributions/25615/attachments/9715/14606/eID.pdf

The current membership map & list of the GEANT association

https://resources.geant.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/NEW-GEANT-Membership-map-March-25.pdf
https://about.geant.org/membership/members-associates-general-assembly-representatives/

ACTION: 

  • Casper to talk to Mira/Nadelina to get a list of CTOs (if already available). 
  • Ester and Amineh work on a suggestion for the new approach to the Questionnaire

Community

Goal to fill in the NREN involvement during 2025. however it is not the goal to have a name for all NRENs. If one NREN does not have any wallet involvement we can note down “n/a” for that NREN.

Ways to promote the list and the community maillist

  • Ask the people we know in NRENs already
  • Talk about it during TNC
  • Ask about it while doing the questionnaire
  • Ask about it during/after the CTO workshop November

Possible community efforts 2026 and later

Other services or efforts useful to coordinate with

  • eduGAIN
  • Core AAI
  • AARC TREE
  • Incubator
  • EnCo wallets (this group)
  • EnCo Policy & Technology
  • REFEDS
  • EUNIS
  • T&I Comms

Actions

eduID credentials in Wallets

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Trust and federation

We do not believe trusted lists will scale within education and research. They would also make us very dependent on governments, which in certain circumstances are not always preferable.

Take the global view from day one.

Investigate what functionality we can piggy back on from the governmental model, e.g. which wallets are certified.

Work in this topic.

  • Can we use openID federation for the wallet ecosystem
  • Can we use the same (or get synergies from) openID federation run for our identity federations (e.g. do a GAP analysis between identity federation use of openID federation and wallet use of openID federation)
  • How can we use both openID federation and the trust infrastructure the EUDIW is running (i.e. most likely trusted lists)

University alliance collaboration will be important. Hopefully we can collaborate with them through the many channels we have, e.g. EUNIS, We build etc
Try to visualize that our openID federation can work together with the university alliance model

Slides presented at EUGridPMA meeting in Praha, May 15 2025
Wallets & Assurance